Wednesday, April 18, 2007

Grinding vs Gambling

I limp on the button with 5 6 suited. Six of us see the flop.

It's Queen, jack, 9. All of diamonds. All of my suit.

I've flopped a flush.

One of the blinds bets out the size of the pot. A player after him then pushes all in.

It gets back to me. If I call I am calling for my entire stack.

If I knew for certain that he held an overcard diamond or had a set then I'm pushing my chips into the middle. I would have an edge and want to take advantage. But the problem here is if I'm facing a higher flush then I am drawing dead. And it's not like I raised and got reraised. I've put only 1 big blind into this pot.

Now working backwards, I don't think he'd reraise all in with the nut flush. He could have something like 7,8 suited. Or even a king or ten high flush and he doesn't want a big diamond card like an ace to beat him if another diamond comes. More likely though he has a straight, set or two pair and is pushing all in to protect it from a big diamond drawing out on him.

I'm not sure what the first guy has. He probably checks a flush from the blinds so I'm probably good there.

If I call and the original bettor also calls and one of them has a set and the other holds the ace of diamonds then I'm 42% to win. The 2 to 1 odds I'm getting on my money are good enough to call.

However like I said above I'm also 0% to win this pot if I'm against a higher flush.

I've only put 1 big blind into the pot.

I'm not here for the weekend. If I were visiting Vegas for 48 hours this is an instant call.

But I live here. I don't need to gamble. Especially calling for all of my chips.

I fold and throw my cards into the muck.

I can't believe it either.


dave said...

Had an interesting hand like this online the other day.

I had kj of spades in late position. Had an early position raiser and a caller in front of me. I call.

Flop is aqj, 2 spades. First guy pushes all in. He had a short-ish stack. Big stack between us just flat calls.

Now, I have about 2.5 times what the first guy had (he had around 35, I had around 75 in a .50-1 cash game).

I figured I had a couple of options. Call, and see the turn. Which I really dont want to do. Fold, and watch me spike the nuts and smash my computer. Or reraise all in. Which is what I did.

Needless to say I repushed. And didnt catch up.

I am starting to think about folding these situations more.

EskimoQuinn said...

Yeah the poker game never ends and I've been trying to remember that especially when I don't have too much money already invested in a pot.

I made two other big lay downs yesterday (Pocket kings on the flop and a royal flush draw on the turn) that were evidence that I'm either playing way too tight or perhaps finally grasping how to correctly play long term profitable poker.

For all I know I may have folded the best hand.

But in both cases I saw no need to call off my stack when there was already a good chance I was behind.

If I were in there raising every hand then I'd probably not fold these. These hands would probably be stronger than my usual holdings. But for someone like myself who is playing tight aggressive poker, I can definitely find better spots to get all my chips in there.

ckbluffer said...

I've noticed a higher degree of "gambling" lately. Take, for example, the following recent gems from my AC forays (all at 2/5 NL):

1. I raise preflop ($25) with AA on the button and get two callers (neither in the blinds). Flop is KJ8 rainbow. Both players check. I bet $70. Asian guy goes all in for $400. What did he have? KQo.

2. I raise preflop ($25) with JJ in late position and get three callers (one of the blinds and two limpers). Flop is KJ8 rainbow. Late position bets $75. I raise to $200. Late position goes all-in. What did he have? K8o.

3. I raise preflop ($25) with A-10 suited in a limped pot (I am big blind) and get two callers. Flop is A-10-6, two diamonds. I bet $75, middle position goes all-in (total of $180) and button goes all-in (total of $400). What did they have? Middle position has 7-2 of diamonds, button has K-6 of diamonds.

What's with the maniacs lately? I blame High Stakes Poker.

Check Raise Chin said...

Hey Rob,

Similar situation for me also except I called the all in with 8/7 suited and got burned when the other guy flipped j/10 suited.

I'm with Dave...I think I might be folding in those situations b/c I'm beginning to see that a lot of people are going in with any two suited etc.

Quick question though Rob:

Have you ever had both your cash game and your tourney game going at the same time? I've been either winning in cash and losing in the tourneys or vice versa. Wonder if it's b/c the styles/strategies of playing cash or tourney are a little different. I'm quite sure if i'm supposed to gamble more in the cash games or the tourneys....just wanted to get your opinion bro.

Keep up the good work bro!

EskimoQuinn said...

Play tournaments more aggressively than cash games.